Curse

Sab · May 30, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

I'm looking to get a new power supply as the one I have right now is out of plugs, not to mention it's one of those brand-less, suspicious-looking things. So I have a few questions:

1) What Wattage should I be looking for? I currently have a Intel Dual Core 1.87GHz, GeForce 8800GT, one HDD, a DVD-ROM and a case fan. Probably going upgrade to better stuff in the future.

2) What are the differences between the brands? What brand should I go for? Plain ones are fine, I don't need a fancy one with neon lights.

3) What are the risks of using a crappy power supply? I'm mainly concerned about my HDD and the new 8800GT I bought.

Thanks~

Brianna · May 30, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

A 500 watt would suffice for that setup. However you might as well go for something like 600~watt.

But it's not only Watts that you are looking for, it's AMPs too, the power supply needs to put off enough amps, or else your stuff won't run. Something like 2-4 12 volt rails that put off 18 amps minimum per rail, that would be a minimum for your setup definitely. Or a single rail that puts out a hefty amount of amps on just that rail.

Just make sure when you go to buy one, that you check the specifications on the box, or something.

Differences between brands is quality and perhaps if you trust them or not, read reviews on the PSU's that you look at to ensure that all the buyers had a good or bad experience with it, these can help you decide a little bit.

Risk of a crappy power supply, I don't think there is that much risk unless they are known to malfunction and cause power surges or something. But even then I think that is sort of unlikely in most cases, at best a cheap power supply would just not have a long life-span, it may crap out early, and of course the quality is just going to suck - it may lack all of those plugs you need in some cases as well.

Remember, you get what you pay for.

Admael · May 30, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

500W should be enough for you.

Crappy power supply could: not supply enough amps to your components, not convert enough energy (DC to AC) making your electric bill go up, make a lot of noise, generate a lot of heat, and of course potentially break down for no reason.

Blackhearted · May 30, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

I'm looking to get a new power supply as the one I have right now is out of plugs, not to mention it's one of those brand-less, suspicious-looking things. So I have a few questions:

1) What Wattage should I be looking for? I currently have a Intel Dual Core 1.87GHz, GeForce 8800GT, one HDD, a DVD-ROM and a case fan. Probably going upgrade to better stuff in the future.

Wattage isn't the main thing you wanna look for. While it is important, there's another factor you have to look at as well. And that would be the amperages. If you get one with too little amps on the 12v rail you'll have problems with your 8800 and it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

2) What are the differences between the brands? What brand should I go for? Plain ones are fine, I don't need a fancy one with neon lights.

Name brands are usually better built and more efficient. Meaning the max they can output at once is closer to it's actual rating than a cheaper one can get.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

3) What are the risks of using a crappy power supply? I'm mainly concerned about my HDD and the new 8800GT I bought.

Thanks~

I don't know if a cheap one will have any effect on your HDD's. I've had a cheap one go out on me once in my old pc(with a bang too) and nothing happened to my hdd's or video card. Though maybe i just got lucky. Only thing that changed is that fans no longer shut off when i powered off the pc. But other than that it had no trouble.

Tamuril elansar · May 30, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

i'd go for a cooler master real power m520 (520 watt).
i got the m620 version and its quit, it works good and you have good cable management, you don't have to put the cables you don't want in the case.

Sab · May 30, 2008, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Thanks for the replies so far, I'll probably get a Thermaltake or a Raidmax down at a local shop (the only ones they have in my price range). Anyone opinions on their products?

Cyb3r · May 30, 2008, 07:32 AM // 07:32

sab try the GamexStream series from OCZ

they got a 500 watt version i think (or the least is 600 watts gotta check) but have one for about 3 months (700 watts version) whisper silent and doesn't even take a hitch on a very heavy powersupply setup ^^ (dual 7800 gt's/dual Raptors and alot of other things doesn't make some powersupplies happy (aka running them rather hot) this one however remains cold the whole time

Lord Sojar · May 30, 2008, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Thanks for the replies so far, I'll probably get a Thermaltake or a Raidmax down at a local shop (the only ones they have in my price range). Anyone opinions on their products?

Sab, yes I do. Raidmax = no way, unless you want tons of overheating issues and output issues on the rails.

Thermaltake's high end stuff is generally very good, but also pricey.

As for the risks? Oh, many. If your rail voltages are too low, you lose performance, and the PC will begin to throw errors from any number of components. If the rail voltages or AMPS are too high, you can surge your hardware and destroy it. If the power regulators fail, it can surge the system. If the PSU overheats, they can fry the mainboard and everything attached near the initial surge. In other words, PSUs are serious business. Don't ever buy cheap junk, you will be sorry.

ABS makes superb powersupplies, but they only make high end stuff. Corsair believe it or not makes some great PSUs, just have to know which models. Another good company is OCZ and....believe it or not, the high end Rosewill PSUs are great for the money. Silverstone, Corsair, and ABS probably make the best PSUs. ABS has REMI cores on their modular cables, which is awesome.

Give this a try if you are pinching your pennies:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182016

This for a more midrange budget:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817153052

High midrange:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817256008
Gotta say, this probably one of the best PSUs in this wattage range. The only one better in my opinion is the Corsair below this link.

And if you don't think price is too big of deal, go for the best:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139002

You pay for what you get, always remember that. I highly recommend the Corsair power supplies with EPS12v, but hey, it is your money. The Corsair PSU would be a for a longer term investment.

If you are going full proof for future upgrades, you could just do it now and really swing a few bucks into the PSU.

This option:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139007
Expensive? Yes. Incredible? Yes. Best PSU on the planet? Pretty damn near.

Other option:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817256041
If you really want to put together a high draw system, this is one of the best options on the market, just watch your pocketbook...

Craziest option:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817814012
You want to go all out and have the best PSU technology around, ABS Tagan BZ series are IT. They will rip your bank account to shreds, but they will bring any component to its knees before it will back down on voltage or amperage.

Brianna · May 30, 2008, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Hey now.. don't scare us Rahja!

I use a crap Antec 500watt with 2 12v rails @ 18 amps per, powers my 8800GTS and other things just fine, so I can at least vouch that 500 watts is enough. I'd just go higher if I had the choice again.

Lord Sojar · May 30, 2008, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

Hey now.. don't scare us Rahja!

I use a crap Antec 500watt with 2 12v rails @ 18 amps per, powers my 8800GTS and other things just fine, so I can at least vouch that 500 watts is enough. I'd just go higher if I had the choice again.

Yeh, no one at work likes Antec, and I tend to agree. Their rails are generally really weak, and they don't hold up well against multiple components, even if said components have a low draw. Antec needs to get their act together.

Aera · May 30, 2008, 10:07 AM // 10:07

http://www.chieftec.com/tubro-power.html

I have one of those. What I absolutely LOVE about this thing is that you can plug and unplug the cables on both sides, so there are no redundant cables hanging around doing nothing, makes the PC a lot tidier and thus gives a slight better airflow as well.

I just noticed they have a typo on their website. :/

Snograt · May 30, 2008, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Heh, Tubro ^^

When it comes down to it, it's all a case of what Sab can get from that local store of his :/

We can't have the guy who popularised the tri-necro hero awesomeness suffer a power outage, now can we?

Kamatsu · May 30, 2008, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Yeh, no one at work likes Antec, and I tend to agree. Their rails are generally really weak, and they don't hold up well against multiple components, even if said components have a low draw. Antec needs to get their act together.

I would strongly advise ever buying an Antec PSU. I've tried 3 of them, all 3 went *boom* in under 6 months. Well, I only bought 1, the other 2 were warrantee replacements... and the fact they didn't last either made me decide to never, ever buy Antec PSU's ever again.

And no, my system is not a power hog.. 2 HD's, 1 DVD-rom, 2 case fans & GeForce 7600GT (at that time, I've upgraded since) .. they were all 550w Antec's, with supposedly had enough amp's in it's rails to run all that without a problem.. pffft. 1 of the damned psu's butrnt out my MB when it went,.. the other 2 just blew themselves out luckily.

Funny enough, I was forced to replace my psu's with a "cheap" psu because it's all I could afford at the time.. and that was ages ago and not had any problems with it (easily close to, if not more than, 2 years now...)... a 650w Atrix "Extreme Power"... I've never even heard of the brand.. and I admit I was worried about it.. but pfft, it's done a lot better than the antec's did.. and it's cheaper.. LOL So guess.. not always does cheap = bad, or I just got lucky... LOL

Lord Sojar · May 30, 2008, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snograt

Heh, Tubro ^^

When it comes down to it, it's all a case of what Sab can get from that local store of his :/

We can't have the guy who popularised the tri-necro hero awesomeness suffer a power outage, now can we?

He made a PvE build for HM, lol. Don't become to much of a fan, you might stalk him. Although the Tri-necro build is fun, it is only really good if you have an HB monk with Infuse with you, because those necros can't heal through the spikes that the ele/rit bosses sometimes throw at you.

Sab can order online can he not? I would recommend that route, more freedom of selection, better prices most likely, and better quality choices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

I would strongly advise ever buying an Antec PSU. I've tried 3 of them, all 3 went *boom* in under 6 months. Well, I only bought 1, the other 2 were warrantee replacements... and the fact they didn't last either made me decide to never, ever buy Antec PSU's ever again.

And no, my system is not a power hog.. 2 HD's, 1 DVD-rom, 2 case fans & GeForce 7600GT (at that time, I've upgraded since) .. they were all 550w Antec's, with supposedly had enough amp's in it's rails to run all that without a problem.. pffft. 1 of the damned psu's butrnt out my MB when it went,.. the other 2 just blew themselves out luckily.

Funny enough, I was forced to replace my psu's with a "cheap" psu because it's all I could afford at the time.. and that was ages ago and not had any problems with it (easily close to, if not more than, 2 years now...)... a 650w Atrix "Extreme Power"... I've never even heard of the brand.. and I admit I was worried about it.. but pfft, it's done a lot better than the antec's did.. and it's cheaper.. LOL So guess.. not always does cheap = bad, or I just got lucky... LOL

You basically just vomited up yet another Antec horror story. They seem to always have these eerie sounding familiar words. Warrantee, Replacement, DOA, Boom, Never buy again, Antec, advise against buying, blew up, destroyed X hardware.

I do believe Kamatsu, that you just Antecpizowned. Alas, even I was made a fool by Antec about 5 years ago. I loathe them to the very core, that and Leadtek (the WORST customer support in the known and unknown universe!!!!!!!!!! WAAHHHH!!)

eVGA, Crucial, Intel/AMD, nVidia, Samsung, Sony, BFG, MSI, ABS, Corsair, ASUS, and Silverstone ALL have great customer service. They are friendly, fast, and knowledgeable. Worst thing is to get an Asian support tech who barely speaks english, and doesn't even know what they are doing, and just reads off the screen. When I call eVGA, I tell them my position, and they immediately go from assuming I am a dummy to working their asses off to figure out a solution (although, I only called once minus the RMA stuff)

Sab · May 30, 2008, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Rahja the Thief: Awesome advice, a local supplier has a few of those you listed. I'll be sure to invest in PSUs more in the future. Thanks!

Brianna · May 30, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Aye, not only you two suffered bad Antec experiences.

This 500 watt's fan went out inside, and we had to go buy a new fan and solder it back in because it sounded like a jet with a giant engine shooting cows as missiles, it was horrid, rofl!

Either way, I'll be making a new build by the end of the year (Gonna save up a few grand for it), so I'll have a new one then.

IrishCB · May 30, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Wow , how weird seeing this thread. This just happened in my lab last week. Antec 600w PSU overloaded the PCB and blew the caps.

Antec = Evil
Anyways, 500w should be fine; However I always say look to the future when buying PC parts. Remember everything doubles ~18months, so if 500w is ok for you now, get a 600 just in case you want to upgrade or add another peripheral.

Brianna · May 30, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

So.. who wants to donate funds to get me a new Power Supply?

I don't want that to happen to me, sheesh I'm surprised it's lasted this long.

Quaker · May 30, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Actually, 500watts - a real 500watts in a good supply - is more than adequate - 400 watts (a true 400 watts) would be enough.

(Btw, I haven't noticed anyone mention Enermax or PC Power & Cooling yet)

(Technical stuff):
But the main thing is whether it's a real 500watts or not. There are different ways of measuring the output of a power supply. A good PS maker will measure the actual power output at the actual sort of temperatures the PS will run at.
Some people in here have said that AMPs are more important than watts, but that is only partially correct.
Watts are simply Volts x Amps. For example, a 12volt rail that can supply 20 amps can deliver 240watts (12x20=240).
In a good power supply, if you multiply the volts x amps of each rail, and then add them all up, they should be equal to, or reasonably close, to the rated total watts of the power supply.

What some (bad) companies will do is to run each rail by itself and measure the power output. They will then total up the "power" of each rail and list that as the total power of the supply. The problem is that the input circuits for the PS (the part that initially converts the 110 VAC from the wall) may not be able to actually handle that much power when all rails are running at once (which would be the normal situation)

So you can have a number of scenarios.
1. A PS where the total wattage rating is the sum of each individual rail, but is not the actual power that can be delivered under actual use.
2. A PS where the amps x volts for each rail would add up to more than the stated Watts, but the stated watts are correct.
3. A PS where the rated Watts is equal to the actual volts x amps of each rail, while all rails are under load.
4. A PS where any of the ratings are given at "room temperature" (20 celsius) as opposed to "operating temperature"

Most power supplies will fall into type 2 actually, because the manufacturer can't always know in advance which rails will be under what load.
(end Tech)

This is why it's best usually to err on the high side and get a PS that's bigger than what you might minimally need.
This is also why you sometimes see power supplies in pre-made systems that seem rediculously small. The manufacturer knows exactly how much power they need for each rail (plus maybe a bit of headroom) and gets a power supply with those exact specs.

P.S - another thing that people get confused about is the nature of wattage/power rating for a power supply. A 500watt power supply is "capable of supplying 500watts" - if the equipment requires less wattage, that's all the PS supplies.
If a rail is rated to supply 12v at 25 amps - that's the number of amps it's "capable of supplying" - the actual supplied current depends upon the load on the rail, and the load on the power supply in total.

The Way Out · May 30, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Yeh, no one at work likes Antec, and I tend to agree. Their rails are generally really weak, and they don't hold up well against multiple components, even if said components have a low draw. Antec needs to get their act together.

Their rails do blow... literally... hahahaha!

I dumped two Antec's that I got with cases into some mediocre gaming rigs and both blew.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?MfrId=1182&Nav=|c:1483|&Sort=4&Re cs=10

Here is a good PSU for the budget gamer.